Trauma today here

i usually take bruizer and lucy walking in the afternoon, so today we went off down the street like we usually do, both kids with their pinch collars on. as i was walking along, this man opened his front door on the other side of the street and out runs a little poodle, sees my kids and makes a bee-line across the street towards us. i was shouting to the man, "keep you dog back, don't let your dog come over...". meanwhile lucy and B are getting worked up and the man isn't even running or shouting or anything, just walking quickly towards us.
so the dog gets in reach of bruizer and he grabs the little one around it's neck and starts shaking it like a rag doll. i was screaming and trying to get him to drop the dog, but he just kept shaking it. finally i was able to stick my hand in his mouth between his teeth and the poodle and get him to drop it. the guy picked up his dog who looked to be in shock, but aware and eyes open, walked away (again, not quickly) and said, "he can't hear".
i was so traumatized seeing bruizer shake the dog like a rag doll or like one of his toys that i stood there on the street and cried for 5 minutes until i could take them home and go back to the man's house to see how the dog was.
he called me later after he took it to the vet. seems it's going to live if it can make it through the next three days. it's on antibiotics with no major injuries.
i know it's not my fault and the guy said that too that the dog usually goes out to the mailbox with him, but he's old and deaf and that's why he didn't come back.
i just feel really bad, been crying all night and even bruizer really acts upset. he's a very sensitive guy and i know this had to freak him out as well.
i hope the little guy lives with no problems from this.
laura

Totally Understand

Scooby is as sweet as they come, but he also can be a Cujo about other dogs. If I see the other dog I IMMEDIATELY put the boy in a sit stay, and bring the pinch collar up as far as I under his chin and hold him in that position until the other dog and their owner pass. If the other dog is loose, I do the same thing with Scooby - sit stay and hold that pinch up close and tight. I then scream at the top of my lungs NO and stomp my feet and make as much noise as possible. Fortunately that has startled the other dog and they generally run the other direction. If that does not work and the other dog is aggressive I do have mace attached to my walking fannie pack. I have never had to use it, but would not hesitate to do so if the other dog would attack either Scooby or me. I couldn't pull Scooby off another dog, so I try and be proactive when these situations present themselves.

I feel so bad that you had to experience that situation. How is the other dog doing? As bad as I feel for the other owner and their dog, I can't help but think if the owner had the dog on a leash, this could have been prevented. Wspecially since the dog is deaf - what if a car were coming? That poor little dog could have been run over.

We all forget that animals are territorial and will defend their "territority" including their humans. Even Scooby gets stupid when someone is walking on the sidewalk next to the house..he barks to let them know MOVE..

How are you doing Laura? I hope you are doing better...

Judy, Scooby, Daphne

I agree with you Txgal. Do

I agree with you Txgal. Do what you can to stop it! Last summer Sam was walking Kain and he noticed a dog across the street a few houses up that was not on a leash. About that time the dog noticed Kain and immediately charged across the street at him. Sam went into protective mode and kicked the dog back! He got up and tried to charge at Kain, again and Sam, again did the same thing. He got the message and ran off across the street. We called animal control but they never found the dog. Every since that happened I take a bat with me when I walk Kain...not sure what I'd do with it but it makes me feel better! Laura - Kain is deaf and we would NEVER let him out in the front yard without a leash. To do that would just be so careless. The other dogs owner really should have known better and hopefully will change going forward.

Elizabeth
Kain's mom

How scary!

So sorry you all went through this! I have certainly had my problems with Jinx pulling and getting really excited with barking dogs behind fences. Fortunately everyone so far in my neighborhood keeps their dogs on leads and when they see us coming scoop up their small dogs and run it the other direction...ha!

We are now using the gentle leader very successfully. Jinx took a long time to get used to it, but she finally did. I now make her sit and stay when I see anyone coming. She complains verbally when we do that, ha, but it's been working.

I must say that clicker training has made a world of difference with her. www.clickertraining.com! It's all based on positive reinforcement and it works better than any training I have ever done.

Hope you all feel better fast, I know if it were me I'd be a basket case!

Laura, my sympathies to you

Laura, my sympathies to you for the dramatic event.

I'm wondering... You know how women and children are given things to do in a worse case situation? You know, kick to the groin, punch out the tail lights if stuck in a trunk, etc.

I've never been in your situation. But is there anything anyone could do in the future when faced with your situation? Seems like it's a fairly common event. Maybe one huge tug, when the animal gets close, on your dog while you take a step forward and punt the target back into his owner's yard? Seems like a better option than getting mauled. Of course, that would depend on the size of the dog and the owner.

Or a kick to the small dog owner's groin. grrrrr

tension transfer?

Several years ago when i was living in MO I had a similar experience with my dog, Kaper (a Belgian Shepherd/Chow mix). The couple who lived in the apartment behind ours had 2 cocker spaniels. The woman always refused to put them on a leash. "My babies are too well behaved to need leashes!" Her husband always had them on a leash. Well, when I took Kaper out to do her business one day here come one of the little snippers trotting right at us. I yelled and waved my arm and even acted like I was going to throw something at it. Nothing. Bleeping thing came right up and bit me. That was the last straw for Kaper who had up until that point been polite enough to only give a low growl and never really liked other dogs anyway. She grabbed it and down all three of us went to the ground. Her pounding the spaniel into the ground, and me trying to pull her off of it while also trying to untangle all three of us from Kaper's leash. I managed to get Kaper to drop the other dog and untangled us and it went running off screaming bloody murder. The woman finally came around the corner of the building and, get this, began screaming at ME! I was bleeding and shaking and in no mood so told her very shortly that if she'd had the dog on a leash it wouldn't have happened. The spaniel was okay thankfully but the more I thought about it over the years the more I think it was also, on a small scale, my fault that Kaper attacked. I was nervous and tense. Kaper was like a part of my soul and extremely in tune to my feelings and moods. I think she felt my nervousness and fear and reacted. She was trying to protect me and that was the only way she knew how at that point. In any case I think the moral of all these stories is very clear: Don't find out your dog's limit. Give them YOUR limit on a leash! What happened with you was that man's fault for not having the dog on a leash!

Jana is right.. this is not your fault

OK... let me see if I understand .. her dog is off leash and BIT you! and it is your fault.... NO WAY... NO WAY even if you were a nervous basket case..... (I am not saying your were).. your dog didn't do anything but PROTECT you.. that is a PROVOKED protection... and all she did was make a point.. if she wanted to seriously hurt the cocker she would have...

Not your fault

Sorry, if this upsets anyone, but NO I don't think it was yours or Kaper's fault. The dog bit you!!!

Jana, Addie & Argos

just like you said.....

had that little dog been onleash...it never would have happened to Laura and Bruizer. She could have turned around and headed in a different direction.

Same exact thing for you ladydarkpoet....don't take the blame yourself for having such a wonderful dog in tune with your feelings and on that particular day..your fears... If that cocker spaniel had been leashed, it never would have happened.
Stacey
~in memory of Moose~

Is this common among Danes???

Laura,
First I am so sorry that this happened. The same thing happened with Ninja about 2 months ago where I came home and opened the door and she saw a little white maltese walking in front of our house. She flew past me and started attacking the little dog without even thinking about it. The dog was practically screaming and so was her owner. I had to haul Ninja off of the dog and I just stood there looking at the woman and had no idea what to say. Her umbrella was broken, she was covered in mud, and she had lost both of her shoes trying to rescue her dog from Ninja. I offered to help her to her house, but she said she was okay. I baked her cookies, but had no idea what street she lived on and neither did any of my other neighbors. I was so upset at the time that I went home and cried. I didn't want the people in my neighborhood to label my dog as "the bad dog", because she really isn't. Is aggression towards small animals common among Danes? Ninja would attack (and has) every little thing she could...I think she thinks they are toys, but Hank doesn't really care unless the smaller dog is being really aggressive towards him.

I used to use the prong collars on Ninja and Hank, but I never really had control over the dogs with them on. The prong collar hardly ever stopped them from pulling me if there was a squirrel or some other animal that they wanted to check out (and they went to obedience school and did great with their walking!). The best thing that I have come across is the "Gentle Leader". It totally makes sense to me and works really well with the dogs. If you think about it, would you just throw a rope around a horse's neck and expect to have control over them? They have halters for horses for a reason, and it works the same way with the Danes. Now if they see another dog or a squirrel, I first try to redirect their line of vision by turning their head away from whatever they are interested in. And if that doesn't work, they can try to pull and buck all they want, but I can keep walking them and not have them pulling me towards their new "friend". It has really made me feel better about walking them by myself because I know that I am in way more control than with the prong collar. If you try the Gentle Leader, your dogs may not like the feeling of something on their face at first (and it is not a muzzle in any way) so my trainer suggested practicing putting the halter on and taking it off several times with a lot of treat rewards and then practicing walking around the house with them with it on. It took me a day to get my stubborn dogs to accept that this is how they were going to walk from now on. So, it wouldn't hurt to give it a try if you want. I couldn't recommend it more. Btw, Carter put it on Willis last night to walk him down the street to go potty and he didn't have a problem with it at all on the first try.

Hope you're feeling better today. : )

Meg, Carter, Ninja, and Hank

Is it Common?

I don't think it's necessary a common thing among Danes. But they seem to be very protective of their people. Rayya loves to play with other dogs, but one day we had her at a Dane gathering and one of the Danes ran up to her and she just freaked out and they both started at each other. Both were leashed, so they were separated quickly. But that whole time - whenever these two even looked at each other, the bad behavior started. That was about a year ago and I've had her around a bunch of other dogs, different breeds - all sizes - and she hasn't done that again. I was wondering what the deal was with that, and then one of the other dog owners said "you know, we don't always like everyone either - why would the dogs be different?" Made me think - yeah I guess that was it. Than, Romulus - who was the sweetest, most gentle Dane I've had - just went nuts with this one person and wouldn't let him anywhere near me. It's was spooky. I didn't know the man, but he was a friend of a group of friends we always hang around with - he had to leave. Romy wouldn't quit his growling and barking at the man. Never seen that happen either. I guess my point is - this can happen unexpectedly and I think that it can happen with any dog breed. Any unleashed dog rushing toward us or our dogs could cause undesired behavior. All I can do is try to train Rayya to not react if I can get the situation controled myself. In training her, I have her sit and watch and I try to stay calm and only shout when the stray is getting way too close. Luckly, so far I haven't had a dog continue all the way up to her to cause a problem. But hey, if it happens and the dog reaches me or Rayya- then it's kinda up to Rayya at that point. She outweighs me by about 20 pounds. I could only try to break it up like you guys did.

Gentle Leaders

I second the recommendation on Gentle Leaders. Romy gets very agressive while on a leash and seeing other dogs. Nothing has helped like the Gentle Leader, it truly is a gift from heaven. I have so much more control over her because of the Gentle Leader's design, plus I know I'm not damaging her trachea and neck area like the prong would when she would lunge.

Gentle leaders

I love the gentle leaders. I have actually walked 4 danes at a time using them. I have several extras to use with fosters. You can get them from www.petedge.com pretty cheap. Another thing I like is the leash connector where I can hook Addie & Argos together. It's great when one starts to pull cause the weight of the other one counter acts the pull.

If Addie and Argos were loose they would also run to a little, medium or large dog, but usually to play, but it looks very aggressive and I'm sure the other dog would take it as an act of aggression. But when we are at my Mom's who has 2 dashchunds(sp) and are all in the yard or house (w/o leashes) they are fine.

Jana, Addie & Argos

Gentle leaders

Gentle leaders are great, but make sure that 1) you get a gentle leader and not a halti. They are similar looking, but fit very differently- I have seen dogs pull out of halti's. 2) make sure to watch the video on how to properly fit the gentle leader.

Halti

hmmmm, I have halti's (thought they were the same), they have tried to get take it off their nose, but with no success. Do they not fit the same? I have been using them for about 1 1/2 yrs with no incidents. Do you think I should switch?

Jana, Addie & Argos

used to use them

we used to use the gentle leaders with both of them. lucy can't wear it because it irritattes her nose and makes it raw, even with padding it and everything.
bruizer on the other hand did ok with it, but he would constantly throw himself on the ground and rub his face all over. even after several months he hated it.

the other thing was this happened so fast. usually what we do when we see another dog we turn around the other way, redirect their attention and go quickly away. this dog came across the street so fast i couldn't turn around and get away with them. it wasn't even a matter of not having control over them. they just stood there until the dog came right up to them like an offering! they never lunged out or pulled me or anything. it was almost like bruizer was just saying, "wow, a toy walking right up to me!" i don't even think the gentle leader would have helped. i'm not sure it would have kept him from doing it if claire would have been with me. it was just fast.

thanks for the suggestions though.
laura

Oh my!!!

You have NOOOO idea how closely I can relate to your horror story! I went through the same thing not so long ago with Jack. He saw a small dog and he pulled me so hard that he dragged me across the street and I landed on my rear finally b/c I did not want to let go.. I was so afraid that he would kill the small dog. The owners picked the dog up thankfully (after it peed all over the place). I was so embarassed. Sydney, much to my surprise, went after the dog too after I let her go to gain more control of Jack. We have about 5-7 new neighbors since then who all have dogs.... Labs, small dogs and one has a mammoth Bull Mastiff. If any of them are ever out walking when I am walking Jack, I know I will be doomed. It sacres me to death as it is inevitable that it will happen one day. But what if it is not a poodle and he encounters one of the other dogs? I can't not take them for walks.... I dread the day.
I am sooo sorry that you went through this. I know I would be crying my head off too from sheer shock! Goodness gracious thankfully that poodle is still alive! Hopefully the owner will not let his dog out again without either checking to see for any other dogs or on a leash. I sympathize with you.

Cristina
Jack & Sydney's mum

Jack that booger!

Cristina, remember when I told you about the stupid neighbor I had that had the dog run loose and came running right at me and Jack... He was on a leash and just froze in time because he was not going to let that dog get to me or him! I was screaming at that man to get his dog, but the more he chased the dog, the faster it came towards me and jack! Argh... I was so scared for jack because I didn't want him to "not get addopted" because of the incident... That big boy is such a goober!!! And I kinda giggled at your expense as I was picturing you being pulled down the road by him... LOL

I am so sorry for bruizer and the poodle. I hope they will both recover and you too!

prayers for everyone

HOW SCARY.. This is my big fear with Mocha....she just doesn't get it...
It is a good thing the man understands and isn't trying to blame you for this ACCIDENT.. IT IS NOT ANYONES FAULT.....

you can both play the what ifs.....

hugs prayers and paws crossed

prayers for you

I can only imagine how scary that must have been. I'm so sorry and you are absolutely right....it was not your fault, not Bruizers fault. It was an accident. If anything...that little dog should have been on a leash, even to go to the mailbox with the man. Elgin goes out front with us off leash as well, something that I need to stop doing....usually to the mailbox or the greet hubby when he gets home. It could easily have happened to us... Poor Bruizer... he didn't know his own strength...and I'm sure he must have thought that little poddle was a toy for him. Praying for you to have peace and KNOW that it was an accident. Prayers sent for the mans poddle as well....that he will recover quickly.

Stacey
~in memory of Moose~

So sorry

So sorry you had to go through that. I would have be so scared. Its totaly not yours or Bruizers fault. My mom has a deaf dachshund and the vet told her to never let her out of the house or yard without a leash on. I don't understand the guy letting him out like that, the dog could have easily walked in front of a car cause he didn't hear it or anyone calling him. If a person has a deaf dog the need to take precautions cause if they aren't looking at you, there is no way to alert them of danger.

Jana, Addie & Argos

I am so sorry

I am so sorry to hear that that happened to you. I know the terrible dread that went through your mind. Athena attacked my cat once just like that. It was close to midnight, and apparently the cat jumped through the cat door to come back inside, and it woke Athena, and she started barking like mad. It woke me up, and I ran out to see what her problem was. I let her out of her crate because I thought maybe she had to go to the bathroom, but she ran straight across the living room grabbed the cat in her mouth and shook her like a rag doll. I screamed out of terror and she dropped the cat and layed on her side knowing she did something bad. I threw her in the back yard and went to investigate the cat. Luckily nothing was punctured, and the cat was fine (a little freaked out but fine). To this day we can not figure out what went through her mind. She loves that cat, she has grown up with the cat since she was 6 weeks old, and they even sleep together sometimes. The only thing we could think of was that she thought we had an intruder, and since it was dark, she didn't realize that it was our cat and not some intruder. Either way, thankfully, she hasn't ever shown any aggressivness against the cat again. I am more wary when they are together, and I hope I never have to see anything like that again. I hope that everything goes ok for that poodle, and I know the terror that went through your mind. That is too bad that it happened. It sucks that the other dog approached like that, because otherwise you guys were just walking minding your own buisness. Its not yours or your dogs fault. I hope everything goes ok for you guys.

Maureen Frerichs

Feel your emotions....

I had the same thing happen to me except luckily my dogs didn't hurt the dog, but they could have...luckily someone heard the comotion from inside their house and shoed the other dog home, while the owner was just sauntering slowly towards me while I am screaming...GET YOUR DOG, MY DOG WILL EAT YOURS...PICK IT UP PICK IT UP. (DIn't know for a fact mine would eat them, but I was hoping it would scare the owner into RUNNING and getting their freakin' dog) ANyway, I was sooo shaken and upset. DOn't understand why people don't put their dogs on a leash.
Anyway, my pet nanny, Doni, was walking both of them when I was out of town and a loose dog ran up, both dogs got worked up and pulled her to the ground and she let go of their leashes...they got the dog cornered in someone's front porch (Shammy did, Chad was just following the "game") and that person opens up their door and another little dog ran out. Anyway, She somehow got Chad (he isn't aggressive, just likes to see the excitement) but Shammy chased the other dog around the houses to the alley. She is running after him and all of a suddent Shammy comes trotting around the front of the house. SHe never did find out whose dog it was as it disappeared (and not into Shammy's belly as it was a medium sized dog). Anyway, she was very shaken, called me, called her owner of the pet sitting company, called animal control to tell them there was a loose dog, etc. Anyway, I told her she didn't need to wakl them together any more. I am not either. I can control Chad easy, and SHammy so long as there isn't a loose dog, but if both get excited, I am not match for their 315 pounds.
I know you are upset, but it isn't your fault. You handled it the best you could. Hang in there.

Sara (Bubba Chad's and Shammy's mom)

maybe a note in their mailbox

maybe you could slip a note in their mailbox letting them know you are thinking of their furbaby... maybe include a small chewy or milk bone?

dog's condition

i haven't yet worked up the courage to go back to the house and see how the little one is. i'm scared they'll tell me he's dead and then i'll feel really bad. but i don't want to seem like i don't really care either.
any thoughts on that one?
laura

How to find out how dog is

I think you need to go, just muster up all the strength you have and ring the doorbell. Let them know you genuinely care about dogs in general. It's not the dog's fault his owners are careless and I think they need to know that you are there for the dog. We once were doing an adoption event (a LONG time ago) and one of our Danes was out of the crate for a potty break. He lived in a house with big, medium, and little dogs. Loved all of them. Anyway, this ancient little dog was walking by just as we were putting the Dane back into the crate and he chomped down. We still don't know what happened, but it took two of us lifting up his hind end and a few others to get the dog loose. It was a 14 year old dachsund. We rushed her and her owner to our vet who operated on her. She made it. Turned out the lady worked in my building. I bought a sweater and treats for the dog and a card and delivered it to her. She was very appreciated and let us know that accidents happen. Now, your situation is different, but I still think you need to just face them and let them know that you care about the dog. Let us know.....
We are all praying it's okay.

Sara (Bubba Chad's and Shammy's mom)

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